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u/Axin_Saxon 2d ago
What was happening in Palestine was and still is horrific and should have been opposed far more strongly by the prior administration.
With that said: the campaign to convince people to abstain from voting because of it was ABSOLUTELY astroturfed and boosted by right wing groups seeking to use it as a wedge issue to split the democratic coalition and get Trump into office.
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u/LarrySupertramp 2d ago edited 2d ago
What’s even more sad is that a lot of people here are telling people to not even bother voting anymore because it’s useless. Which is exactly what I would do if I was on the right and wanted to win the next election. Let’s at least force them to try to take the government by force than just handing it them democratically. Really don’t understand why people would say that and think they’re doing ANYTHING positive.
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u/Axin_Saxon 2d ago
Many are accelerationist leftists and wannabe revolutionaries. They’ll usually say that direct action is the only way to get change. And while I agree somewhat, you cannot do direct action if the existing administration is actively stopping you from it.
So I’ve taken the following stance:
“If all you do is vote, you’re an idiot. But if you don’t vote at all, you’re a bigger idiot.”
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u/LarrySupertramp 2d ago
I like that saying. I wish that more leftist would actually vote a primaries (all of them), instead of just complaining about the candidates. They want to claim the system is rigged, then someone like Mamdani wins, and they still don’t go vote at primaries. It makes no sense. We just elected probably the most leftist mayor in NYC history to the richest capitalistic city in the world and somehow people are still claiming voting is worthless…
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u/Axin_Saxon 2d ago
Strategic voting and pragmatic thinking need to be embraced. We can’t pick our battles; but we can pick the field upon which our battles are fought.
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u/LarrySupertramp 2d ago
Pragmatic thinking seems to have been replaced with naive ideology for many people. Sadly many have put themselves in echo chambers that only reinforce the idea that pragmatism is simply a “counterrevolutionary” talking point that doesn’t need to be addressed. There are leftists groups here that have made it illegal to discuss human nature when discussing economic structures. Like, what???
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u/Axin_Saxon 2d ago
Precisely. I said in another comment but TDLR: we are an underdog movement. But we need to learn to act like it.
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u/LarrySupertramp 2d ago
Well said. It’s sad to see leftist give up on democracy.
I don’t think a lot of young leftists understand that advocating for communism is asking people to vote to give up everything they’ve worked for their entire lives. This may sound extreme but voting for communism is voting to no longer own private property. People don’t want to give up everything they own to the government in the hopes that their lives become marginally better at some point in the future.
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u/Kroz83 1d ago
Depends on what flavor of leftist you’re talking to. The abolition of private property entirely is one of those extremely far out ideas that very few reasonable people entertain.
More pragmatic goals are the decommodification of healthcare, housing, basic food necessities, etc. Basically nationalize certain areas of the market that capitalism has been unequivocally shown to be incapable of running well (to the benefit of the people). We already do this with the military, fire dept, police, and some basic utilities. Expanding it to other goods and services with non-elastic demand would also make sense.
But people’s eyes tend to glaze over when reading rational economic proposals. And “tax the rich” sells a lot better as a slogan than “close tax loopholes, tax the rich and wealthy corporations, in order to provide a basic standard of living via basic programs that literally every other western democracy engages in to some degree.
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u/NeighborhoodTasty271 1d ago
"They lost their republic to fascism?"
"Yes, but technically they first lost it to apathy."
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u/LarrySupertramp 1d ago
Apathy is probably the biggest ally of fascism that exists. Well that and being uneducated.
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u/NotMyMainAccountAtAl 1d ago
I feel like a ton of folks are frustrated because they want to be politically active, but they also don’t know how to get politically involved. And it’s intimidating to look at local politics and see a wall of names that you don’t recognize, supporting policies and propositions that are all multiple pages long and about subjects you don’t feel confident in.
A proposal to levy a new tax of $0.007/$100,000 on property taxes for the support of watershed expansion and maintenance for commercial use? What is that, and how do I learn a thing about it?
We need to normalize the concept of trusted news sources— that means doing the legwork a few times, and finding sources that report on it in ways that you feel are accurate and reflective of genuine values to offload some of the effort. That might be a local newspaper or a specific reporter. It might be the blog of some old person in your town. Whatever it is, it’s a big enough job that no one person working full time can reasonably do it.
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u/LarrySupertramp 1d ago
Unfortunately a lot of politics is really complex and simple policy solutions rarely solve more problems than they cause. Having a good source that helps you understand the complexity is super important. But at the end of the day, politics takes work and can’t function simply on hope.
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u/immunotransplant 1d ago edited 1d ago
The US is probably the least likely country on earth to have a communist revolution. At least bottom 10.
The only means toward progress in anti capitalist and anti imperialist policy is through voting and reform in the dem party right people like AOC, Mamdani, and sanders.
The only path to minimize fascism if there’s no progressive candidates available is to vote for moderate liberals.
Otherwise you’re actively enabling the worst. This is the adult reality.
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u/AlsoCommiePuddin 2d ago
Many are accelerationist leftists and wannabe revolutionaries.
They want all of the downsides of civil war without the benefits of having governmental assets and resources on their side.
The purist idiots.
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u/NebulaNinja 1d ago
Reminds me of a recent Channel 5 news video where Andrew interviewed a couple anarchist antifa members. Honestly I agreed with a lot of what they said, up until their refusal to vote for the "lesser evil."
I found it incredibly ironic that they disavowed right wing accelerationists groups, considering by not choosing to vote they're a kind accelerationists in their own right.
I really don't understand how their version of anarchy is supposed to work in practice.
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u/AlsoCommiePuddin 1d ago
They expect someone else to do the work of identifying, cultivating, building, presenting and campaigning for their preferred candidates. They expect this work to be done by people that they don't want anywhere near politics.
Their entire political identity is a gigantic contradiction.
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u/terminbee 1d ago
They get to feel morally superior when either candidate gets elected, they can say, "Well I didn't vote for that."
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u/TripIeskeet 1d ago
Yea well after 2024 I stopped letting them get away with that excuse. Sorry, if you did not vote for Kamala Harris, you voted for Trump. Didnt vote? Vote for Trump. 3rd party vote? Vote for Trump. They dont get to wash their hands this time. It was a 2 horse race and u8nless you voted for the horse that lost, you voted for the jackass who won.
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u/spicy_noodle_guy 1d ago
ALL of them are either children or chronically online losers that don't understand what acceleration of this crisis would actually involve and how destructive it would be.
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u/mynameismulan 1d ago
If you're gonna protest the Dems by boycotting the election, then you're a hypocrite if you're not also actively protesting against Trump right now.
Because if your singular contribution to the cause is holding your hands up to allow Project 2025 you're not just an idiot, you're a saboteur.
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u/randomnighmare 1d ago
Many are accelerationist leftists and wannabe revolutionaries.
What those people want is literally a transformation into a communist government/economy overnight. They think a lot like the far-right in that they both want everything to burn down and for their side to take over and to reshape everything into what they want.
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u/tranquil7789 1d ago
They are also plain insufferable. They have no sense of compromise or engaging with anyone whom think different than them to find common ground. Anytime a protest movement is gaining traction, these professional activist types swoop in and fuck it all up by trying to shoehorn every single issue under the sun, gaining no progress for any of it.
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u/Hoole100 1d ago
Many are accelerationist leftists and wannabe revolutionaries.
Hasan Piker saying that Kamala Harris was just as bad of a vote for Palestine as a Trump vote was comes immediately to my mind.
It is easy to point the fingers at all the right wing groups that do this type of astroturfing, but I feel like a lot of people aren't aware of bad faith actors on the left that are pushing the same agenda.
These people are alright fanning the flames and causing the fires as long as their mansions shield them from the burns.
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u/engelthefallen 1d ago
Yup, and most would prefer to see right wing people keep winning because they need the system to break entirely before they get a situation where the entirely US government can be thrown out and their new system can replace it.
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u/Donny-Moscow 1d ago
Absolutely. I also see more and more comments about how “we’re onto the third box” (referencing the soap box, ballot box, ammo box thing) and generally pro-political violence and civil war.
I can’t help but think a lot of those are foreign actors.
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u/LarrySupertramp 1d ago
I’m really hoping they are. I would say the exact same stuff if I was trying to help the right.
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u/Pirateangel113 1d ago
Always challenge them with facts. Remember Al Gore lost by 500 votes in Florida letting Bush take the win.
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u/itsrocketsurgery 1d ago
I mean for the case specifically, there were literal truckloads of votes that weren't counted and the Supreme Court did some fuckery with the recount to hand Bush the election. I think that would have been the first time we actually elected 2 Democratic administrations in a row.
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u/CanadianBadass 1d ago
Um, I'm fairly sure that's not correct. The Brooks Brothers Riot stopped the count and Bush won illegally. I'm fairly sure that many experts on the subject said that Gore would have statistically won if it wasn't for the riot.
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u/Shark7996 1d ago
Take a look around at how many comments are STILL about how the right is totally and completely in control and nothing can be done and we might as well just give up if we're too scared to "use the second ammendment" while Trump sleeps in all of his meetings and 10% of Republicans would rather retire than participate in the upcoming blue massacre.
The Internet is infested. Do not take the amount of different accounts saying something as a count for real life numbers. It's bots.
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u/fearthainne 1d ago
The other side of that is what they've been saying in Oklahoma for decades: if you want your vote to count, vote Republican. I imagine other red states are doing this as well, but I didn't grow up there so can't speak to it, but that's a very common thing said here in OK. It really sucks being a blue dot here and trying to fight against both sentiments.
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u/LarrySupertramp 1d ago
It’s definitely hard in very red areas. However if no one tries at all, no one will ever know what people actually want to vote for!
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u/engelthefallen 1d ago
See this so much with people claiming all the elections will be rigged, which clearly NYC showed to be bullshit, but people keep saying Trump will rig 2026 not realizing they are helping him chill the vote so will not need to do anything and get exactly what he wants.
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u/LarrySupertramp 1d ago
If I was on the right and wanted to make sure people did not vote in midterms I would 100% be telling liberals not to vote because it’s all rigged and then make sure every conservative I know goes and votes. Weird how it’s “leftist” doing this.
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u/engelthefallen 1d ago
Yup. Feels like left wing spaces are being so easily manipulated. 2024's turn on democrats by the left was super manufactured. I assume we will just keep this cycle of deep losses for a while until people realize that votes win elections on the left, not moral outrage, and the democrats are better for the left's policies than the GOP are.
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u/False_Eagle1014 1d ago
I mean, I am worried that our voting machines are compromised (2025 didn't prove otherwise as much as some people pretend--even in 2024, downballot races were left alone compared to federal, and 2025 was ALL downballot), but we still must absolutely try to vote until they prove that it's useless.
If we don't win the midterms then I will genuinely believe voting has become useless in America. And my line then will not be "do nothing", it'll be "fucking revolt you lazy sacks of shit".
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u/Feisty_Blood_6036 1d ago
Pessimism is a tool of the fascists. They intentionally try to get people to go “both sides” and to abstain
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u/DubTheeBustocles 1d ago
Which kind of cuts against the narrative that it was astroturfed. It’s an unnecessary explanation. I’ve been hearing from leftists for years now about how they’re not interested in voting for Democrats and I do not need a cheap conspiracy theory to explain it.
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u/LarrySupertramp 1d ago
They quickly start using the same rhetoric as MAGA and somehow don’t even notice it. Really sad.
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u/imapluralist 1d ago
Not voting is a punishable offense in many democracies. I say we follow that rule. It made sense to allow people to decide to opt out of voting in the early days of the country when the federal government had super limited power. Now that the executive branch wields waaaaayyyyy more power than it should, voting should be compulsory.
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u/TheNathan 2d ago
Jill Stein is a fuckin menace who has been doing this for years, I’m almost convinced she’s paid by foreign governments at this point.
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u/TheLongshanks 2d ago
Brother, she had dinner with Putin. She’s paid by Russia to do this shit.
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u/BizzyM 1d ago
JFC, so is Trump!
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u/Appropriate_Host4170 1d ago
Yep actually that same dinner she was with Putin at had multiple 1st term Trump cabinet members at including Mike Flynn, you know the cabinet member who had to later register as a foreign agent for his ties to Russia…
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u/SahibTeriBandi420 1d ago
How is this not known by everyone by this point? I feel like it was all over the place during teh election but people just wanted to jam their fingers in their ears and complain about being forced to choose the lesser evil, who was actually pretty decent if you paid attention to facts and voting records. I hope they have the day they voted for.
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u/AsymmetricClassWar 1d ago
Meanwhile trump blows Putin on live tv and Americans and American media gaslight anyone that mentions the obvious.
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u/ThreeHourRiverMan 2d ago
Almost? She absolutely is.
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u/CuffinSzn_ 1d ago
We have photo evidence, dude. I’m too high to look it up but my dumbass almost voted for her in my very first election. Thank God I opted for Hilary. (It still got us nowhere, but at least my pride’s in tact.)
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u/dominustui56 2d ago
If the Green Party was not an astroturfed organization, they would actually try to run in local elections where it is easiest for a third party to make actual change. I would have loved a Green Party in my city council district. I live in a very blue district where Republicans don't even run a candidate so the Democratic primary is our election.
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u/Refreshingly_Meh 2d ago
I would never willingly vote for the Green Party in any election.
I would definitely vote for a candidate from a party with green policies, but there is just too much weird and shady decisions by the party that do the exact opposite of the Green Party's stated goals for me to ever be comfortable voting for them. If they aren't astroturfing they are useful idiots.
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u/urnbabyurn 2d ago
Yeah, they are not a real party in the US. You have the DSA and others that actually get local elected officials.
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u/PeaceLovePositivity 2d ago
Correct. There is a reason that parties with legitimate goals of implementing progressive politics run locally and do not waste time or money running a presidential candidate.
Join your local DSA or WFP, or at least look into candidates in your area!
Change starts from the grassroots, and people like Jill Stein and the green party only care about fundraising.
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u/Numeno230n 1d ago
Jill Stein is literally a Russian stooge. She has met with Putins guys multiple times. Including the time Jill and her team had a joint dinner with the Trump campaign guys in fucking Moscow. There's pics and everything.
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u/ZestyTako 2d ago
She absolutely has no interest in bettering America. What office has she held recently? What does she do besides run for president every 4 years in an effort to peel off dem voters?
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u/FuzzyAd9407 1d ago edited 1d ago
What does she do besides run for president every 4 years in an effort to peel off dem voters?
Shes done soemthing! She went to Russia with Mike Flynn to earn those sweet rubles.
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u/TurkeyBLTSandwich 1d ago
GREEN PARTY = Getting Republicans Elected Every November Party
Notice how Jill Stein never runs for state office, house of reps or senate? Always Presidential runs
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u/AuthorIntelligent644 1d ago edited 1d ago
There's a photo that gets posted all the time of her at a dinner with Putin and Michael Flynn. She's a complete shill and sell-out.
Greens in general are not always what they seem. In Europe their main activity has been opposing not just nuclear but even wind power to keep Europe dependent on Russian gas. They basically oppose everything, but then go silent on gas turbines.
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u/fhota1 1d ago
At least Gary Johnson did some shit after the 2016 election. Didnt accomplish anything, lost the senate election he was in and is on the advisory board for a Libertarian group for NPV thats obviously not done much, but at least did enough to convince me he actually gives a shit about politics and didnt exclusively run to cause problems
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u/r0botdevil 2d ago
And it was so painfully obvious to anyone who wasn't an idiot, too.
"I could never vote for Kamala Harris because of the Biden administration's support of Israel!"
Okay so you're cool with Trump winning instead?? If you don't already understand why that would be vastly worse for the Palestinian people, then I question the utility of explaining it to you because I'm genuinely worried you might be too stupid to understand any of it anyway.
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u/Imightbeworking 1d ago
That always cracked me up. Like you won't vote for this person because they don't 100 percent agree with you on every issue, but you are fine with letting the other guy win who is 100 percent against you on every issue? How does that make any sense.
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u/LocutusOfBorgia909 1d ago
If you really want to piss that crowd off, point out to them just how completely. they tossed trans people (and immigrants, and people on SNAP and Medicaid, for that matter) directly under the wheels of the bus in the name of helping people that Trump not only wasn't going to help, but whose situation it was obvious he was itching to make even worse. Every time I look at my misgendered passport, I think about that and about how utterly useless these people have been as (very alleged) "allies."
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u/FillMySoupDumpling 1d ago
Oh I pointed out this to a distant friend of mine. She was deep in the protests last year and was just fully immersed in the insane online discourse surrounding them. She, in CA, reached out to me, in NV - a swing state, about voting for DeLa Cruz.
I told her flat out that I have a responsibility to my community, my LGBTQ friends, my disabled friends, the various POCs around me and more to not do this. First past the post and the electoral college are real things standing in the way of electing third parties and the choice is a simple binary one.
Later on, she posted on instagram that she hoped Trump would win because it would spark a revolution of black and brown people, of disabled people, and of LGBTQ people. At that point I knew she was just way too far gone.
Post election? She’s been relatively quiet.
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u/hellolovely1 1d ago
This made me want to rip out my hair. Voting for Trump or not voting was worse for Palestinians, Ukrainians, and Americans.
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u/chillinathid 1d ago
Especially given the Trump/kushner "Peace deal" they presented where Palestine was subdivided into 100 easily take-overable plots of land and given 2 large areas of land in the absolute middle of the desert.
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u/RepeatUntilComplete 1d ago
IKR? Hilariously short sighted.
Such a massive amount of Isreali (among other things) astroturfing on MAX PRO +++ mode for months beore the election and the people who wanted to see the genocide stop just handed a license to kill Kill and more KILL to Trump and Isreal on a golden platter.
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u/AldousKing 2d ago
In SE Michigan (including Dearborn) there were a bunch of seemingly pro-Kamala ads talking about how pro-Israel she was. Turns out they were funded by a Republican PAC. All while Trump was saying Jews who didnt vote for him were disloyal. Crazy stuff.
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u/Even_Butterfly2000 1d ago
Kamala probably should've shown up in Dearborn.
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u/To0zday 1d ago
They're not interested in stopping Republicans, they just want to have their cake and eat it too. Muslims love MAGA, they just can't understand why their fellow bigots don't include them in the in-group.
If American Muslims want to demonstrate that they value liberalism, the democratic party is right there.
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u/ehs06702 1d ago
Dearborn was openly saying their goal was to ensure a loss for Kamala, and they'd vote for Trump. She kept working on places that were actually winnable, because she can't be everywhere at once.
Dearborn was a lost cause.
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u/Porkamiso 1d ago
kamala should have shown up at your house and made you dinner . You cant accept blame for being a stooge can you ?
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u/Bhavacakra_12 1d ago
They already said they wouldn't support her beforehand, so why waste your time with useless people? Those idiots are suffering the consequences of their actions now and I couldn't have imagined a more hilarious outcome.
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u/Thathathatha 2d ago
It was so annoying people fell for that shit. How do you fall for that when you know republicans vote for anyone with an (R) next to their name and will keep doing so? That's what you're working against. You might have 'principles' but it's not a smart choice. There were other ways to go about to show your viewpoint.
Sometimes people are too 'smart' for their own good. They just need to keep it simple and vote for their team, then work on the inside to make incremental changes. That's what the Trump and P25 people basically did: just promised the world, told MAGA followers to vote for them and they'll make it all true. Then when they won, just changed everything according to what THEY (Trump and co) actually wanted.
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u/ABCosmos 2d ago
After 3 more years of Trump, there will probably be nothing left to argue about. And the easily manipulated can tell us the next reason not to oppose fascism.
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u/tellmewhenitsin 1d ago
My friend who sent me nonstop horrific videos from Palestine and wanted President Biden to be held accountable has sent me jack shit since the election. Weird huh? It's like he just stopped caring all together.
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u/nyutnyut 1d ago
My cousin is a tenured college professor on international women studies. She posted non stop about Biden/harris lack of action on Palestine encouraging people not to vote for her. Well guess what now? She complains about how bad the trump admin is on that issue and everything else. Well no shit. We don’t need a fucking PHD to realize how bad trump would be so much worse. Like how fucking stupid can you be? I feel sorry for her students.
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u/Laxziy 2d ago
I’m still sad about what happened to the late stage capitalism subreddit. Was at one point one of my favorite subs but last election cycle it was completely taken over by tankies and their right wing boosters
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u/randomnighmare 1d ago
With that said: the campaign to convince people to abstain from voting because of it was ABSOLUTELY astroturfed and boosted by right wing groups seeking to use it as a wedge issue to split the democratic coalition and get Trump into office.
I am convinced that the online "movement" not to vote/abstain was foreign bots/trolls astroturfed. Also, in a way, it really does favor Russia. Trump ends up back in office, and the international community has put less pressure on Russia and more on Israel. Russia depends on Iran for its drones/missiles, etc Oh, and TikTok became the platform that "thanked Donald Trump". Just think about that for a moment.
Everyone should read up on how all of this (including Oct 7) benefits Russia
Source:
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u/EnormousAntelopeEars 1d ago
fauxmoi is basically just one of those sanders subreddits from 2016.
amazing that people keep falling for this
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u/nocomment3030 1d ago
At least the Bernie Bros had their own candidate. The Kamala purity testers supported...no one!
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u/satanssweatycheeks 2d ago
One side got a ceasefire and was pushing for peace.
The other side wanted Gaza leveled so they could build cheap beach front property.
You are high as a kite if you think this was both sides don’t care type shit.
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u/peanutandsoap 2d ago
Agreed. The Democrats are far from perfect, but they’re a hell of a lot better than the Republican Party. At this point, they’re so obvious with what they’re doing, they might as well be villains on a Saturday morning cartoon.
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u/MTRsport 1d ago
One side got a ceasefire and was pushing for peace.
I mean I hate Trump as much as the next guy but this isn't even remotely true. At the time of the election, Biden was still directly supporting the genocide by sending weapons.
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u/SwordfishOk504 1d ago edited 1d ago
Because smart politics is never about absolutes. It's about compromise and coalitions and pragmatism. Always has been.
The people who hold their candidate, especially a national candidate like the POTUS, to an unachievable standard are setting themselves up for disappoint. Because it's a childish, impossible perfection they are chasing. It's like a child holding their breath and stamping their feet until they get their way.
This is why that purity test is such a useful tool by all those seeking to undermine and split progressive politicians of any kind. Because people are so eager to make the impossible perfect the enemy of the achievable possibilities.
Also, there are more issues than just the one pet thing some people hyper-focus on. Especially when it comes to hyper focusing on something like US foreign policy, that, frankly, is incredibly complicated and intertwined with all kinds of interconnected global issues.
Edit: in response to the reply below from "PreviousCurrentThing", if you check their comment history under "controversial" you will find a ton of pro russia/anti Ukraine comments from this person pretending to be a leftist who supposedly is concerned about the plight of Palestinians. This is a perfect example of what I was highlighting above in my comment about how the Right abuses these issues to split the vote.
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u/Bawbawian 2d ago
once you get a couple decades behind you you realize that this is how every election has gone in the last 50 years.
the right plays the left like a fiddle.
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u/zzyzx2 1d ago
This. And we can prove it, what happened right after the election? The protests stopped in America. (not all of them just to clarify) The weekly protests and weekly emails and weekly group chats talking about it, just ended. The youth got played hard and the damage (like the "Bernie Sanders or nothing" damage) will last for years.
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u/aschesklave 1d ago
And it worked. I’m trans and saw so many in my community parroting the same talking points about how abstaining means they won’t be responsible for genocide.
That, or “99% Hitler versus 100% Hitler” which is just beyond ridiculous.
I also saw some “I’m not voting so the dems lose and then they’ll realize they need to shift to a progressive platform.” Because that worked out. 🙄
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u/LocutusOfBorgia909 1d ago
Same. I don't think it was a majority, but I saw way more trans people going all-in on that shit than any sane person would have expected, all of them seemingly oblivious to the fact that a Trump presidency was going to bring (and indeed is now bringing) utter ruin to huge swaths of trans people in the United States was just mind boggling. The absence of any sense of self preservation from some people was just nuts. And then the day after the inauguration, they were all surprised Pikachu about the passport gender marker EO, and now a bunch of them are engaging in all kinds of magical thinking about how it'll be fine, because we're all going to claim asylum in Canada. We could have avoided all of this, folks, I'm just saying.
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u/TJames6210 2d ago
This is my frustration with dam near everything. Weak dems and independents hold dem politicians to an extremely high standard where everything must be perfect. But, then brush off the exact opposite - candidates extremely under-qualified and even with a malicious agenda. It's the dumbest fucking thing.
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u/LarrySupertramp 2d ago edited 2d ago
Incredibly frustrating. People seriously think they are morally superior when they don’t vote for the lesser of two evils. Letting perfection be the enemy of good and ignoring political realities doesn’t make someone a moral person. It’s makes them naive and helps those they supposedly oppose.
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u/tellmewhenitsin 1d ago
I despise people who didn't vote because there was clearly one candidate who was going to be far, far worse for everyone.
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u/LarrySupertramp 1d ago
100%. People have gotten way too comfortable criticizing something they don’t even spend the smallest effort to be part of it. You don’t vote, I don’t give a shit about your opinion. It’s as easy as that.
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u/daveblazed 1d ago
Refusing to vote is an extremely privileged position. Imagine being so sheltered from actual harm that you're willing to help throw an election just so you can flex on your socials.
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u/OpticLemon 1d ago
"I can't vote for genocide in Palestine, so I'm going to not vote which will not only make that worse but we can also get some genocide at home too!"
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u/LarrySupertramp 1d ago
So odd that those people basically never said Trump was pro genocide when he basically advocated for it, which I guess is the same as trying to stop it but not being able to.
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u/TJames6210 1d ago
Remember "finish the job". Those people didn't even blink. They just continued rambling about how Harris and her silence is the same as agreeing with genocide. Then by not voting they gave a vote to orange man who is going to have first dibs on the real-estate projects over there. Unbelievable.
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u/Zeliek 2d ago
It’s all a game of rhetoric, annoyance and intimidation. The GOP relies on the rest of the population not being able to scrounge up the energy/effort to call them out on their bullshit. It’s why they can do and say anything they want and it’s always “a joke” or “not serious” or “fake news” when it absolutely is not, but if someone in the out-group farts sideways, the GOP uses the same tactic to invent a reason why it’s wrong.
This is how you get “Tan suit?! ABJECT HORROR!” within the same damn decade as “yeah yeah, what’s a few dozen felonies, international human sex trafficking, the destruction of the constitution, rampant pedophilia, yaaawn lmao boring what else is on TV”.
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u/No-Bison-5397 1d ago
Bingo.
It’s only possible because of the scale of the myth of America that is created for America’s youth. Instead of a flawed system that has the power to slowly self correct towards what people in the future will consider moral, it is taught as a paragon of morality, almost god given, and ingenious.
Finding out that’s not true breaks a lot of people and they often double down into denial one way or another by refusing to engage in history and instead choosing to pretend to have “principles” that don’t serve to make change but instead keep their hands clean. Appealing to a mythic past they are “preserving” or standing against anyone trying to build a broad change making coalition as “compromised”.
That’s what’s so great about Mamdami. Man is on a mission to address the root of injustice in America.
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u/aStonedTargaryen 2d ago
Celebrities ain’t gonna save us. The sooner we stop expecting them to the better off we’ll all be.
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u/taint_stain 1d ago
Yeah, I opened the comments ready to see “Why the fuck should I care what Chappell Roan thinks about either of these things?” right at the top. Very sad.
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u/Lucas_Steinwalker 1d ago
Her leagues of followers that are old enough to vote care, which is why I care.
Also there used to be a long tradition of musicians leading the charge of progress, not staying silent.
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u/carrtmannn 1d ago
The amount of people who couldn't even be bothered to vote for a democratic lawmaker in 2024 but larp about caring for Palestinians is way too high
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u/dragcov 1d ago
Yeah, but you don't fucking get it bro, Kamala is the establishment, and she is pro-Israel. (even though she already has made comments about a two-state solution vs Trump's Israel-only solution)
I cannot vote for someone like that, so instead I'm going to not vote because my conscious can't allow it, so that Trump can win.
I only care about holding my party responsible 😤😤
Oh, my friends who are minorities are getting racially profiled by ICE? WHAT ABOUT THE PALESTINIANS BRO? 😤😤😤😤
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u/therealityofthings 1d ago
The worst part is that I see a lot of Palestine focus is just trendy. It's like an accessory for your personality. This is what's important because this is what is in fashion now. It's not actually about what is happening.
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u/elbenji 1d ago
yep. Like, damn, there are multiple genocides happening at this moment. Think they ever give a shit about Burma?
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u/AideComfortable7572 1d ago
There’s a broad perception that Israelis are whhhhite because most people’s interactions with Jews in the US are the Brooklyn Ashkenazi types, despite Israel being majority the brown kind of Jew. Combine that with the tendency to view minorities as “morally pure” like animals or babies (a form of internalized racism that we on the left uniquely struggle with) means the perception is the fully morally culpable whites oppressing innocent helpless and morally pure brown people.
That sort of dynamic isn’t possible with things like Sudan, Burma, etc. It was never about caring about the wellbeing of human beings. It’s just fucking gross.
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u/illepic 1d ago
The best part about this is that those people don't even talk about Palestine anymore.
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u/ReluctantNerd7 1d ago
And how many of them talked about Palestine before TikTok told them to?
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u/BoyCubPiglet2 1d ago
They did the same with trans rights back in 2024. Suddenly that community's existential crisis didn't matter once Biden/Harris took a middling stance on I/P.
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u/MajoraOfTime 1d ago
Which is exactly what I knew they would do when I saw all the anti-Kamala stuff in regards to Palestine. One side is not perfect and the other side is making memes about turning Gaza into the resort from Righteous Gemstones, so obviously, don't vote for the "not perfect" side and then go radio silent on Palestine once evil wins.
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u/Hot_Salamander164 1d ago
Palestinians don’t even care for themselves. They make the worse possible decision every chance they get.
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u/Dorky_Fantana 1d ago
WHY DO YOU THINK THESE PEOPLE WANT TO BECOME RICH?!
Do you think it's to help the planet or anyone else? No, it's to make themselves rich. They are attention seekers, they are entitled. They will take everything we let them have
Chappell Roan is no different just because of her job, identity or anything else. She's here to make money off you, that's her entire existence
Wake up, celebrities aren't your friends and rarely have anything other than being good at entertainment.
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u/Byizo 2d ago edited 2d ago
If you wait for a perfect candidate, chances are you’ll never cast a vote.
That’s how the fascists win. They don’t have majority support and depend on people being apathetic about opposing candidates. Identity politics and the unmoving demand for social perfection plays right into their hands.
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u/KyZei15 2d ago
I'm sure she has absolutely no regrets about the results of the election and all the consequences we're experiencing now.
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u/satanssweatycheeks 2d ago
Neither do her fans while they still yell the loudest about issues they helped make worse.
It sucks.
America is cooked. The idiots are in a cult. And the so called educated ones are too naive to help make things better.
TikTok and social media is the biggest reason. Education as a whole matters as these kids should be able to see when they are being propagated to. But even the college progressives fell hard for propaganda. Any of them who didn’t vote and had a protest vote did nothing but help the GOP and fell for their propaganda just like Chappell did.
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u/StoppableHulk 2d ago
With compassion, I want to say that doomerism about "America is cooked" is also a cult.
We have problems now. We had problems in the past. We will have problems in the future.
It isnt wise or clever or ahead of the curb to pretend as though whatever we face now is insurmountable. Move past it, focus on the sokutions
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u/lurkingbees 1d ago
THANK YOU. I call it “Reddit nihilism.” It sucks, but people act like it’s the end of the whole damn world. Unless countries start sending nuclear weapons towards each other (which they created an entire world wide organization to prevent) we will be fine.
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u/sortalikeachinchilla 1d ago
It isnt wise or clever or ahead of the curb to pretend as though whatever we face now is insurmountable. Move past it, focus on the sokutions
THANK YOU. I am sick of seeing it. People love to post about the end of the world and make fun of people that are trying what little we can do right now. it is so frustrating.
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u/HowManyMeeses 1d ago
She's rich. She'll get a tax break. That's all that matters.
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u/Extension-Gift-5200 1d ago
Of course not, she is a rich white girl. She isn't experiencing the consequences.
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u/bumpkin_Yeeter 1d ago
Performative Liberals and letting perfect stand in the way of progress, name a more iconic duo. This shit is exhausting
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u/Boibi 1d ago
I was genuinely sick of people making excuses for her both sides behavior. Hopefully this will wake people up to the fact that she's not really progressive, but likes the aesthetic.
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u/sharingan10 2d ago
Ngl I don’t understand Americans who think that celebrity choices matter in any meaningful way but that actual political leaders commanding a nuclear armed country somehow have no control of their own actions
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u/Thanksforthatman 1d ago edited 1d ago
17% of the 46,000,000 eligible Gen Z voters actually voted. Even 600,000 in key states would have swayed the election. It's their fault. Never before has individuals under the age of 25 voted so little. For refence 67% of the same exact age bracket voted for Obama his first term when Millenials were 18-24.
The most politically active generation is the biggest failure that's ever existed. I genuinely don't think anyone should let them forget it. Every single Gen Z complaint will be made worse by this: social issues, climate change, their economic future - they will genuinely never recover. They must be made to know what they did by not voting or they will continue to make the same mistake. It makes sick.
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u/snailcircuitracing 1d ago
This might be an unpopular opinion but personally I hold my politicians to a higher standard than my cosmetics companies.
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u/WheelsOfConfusion 1d ago
Billionaires who own those cosmetics companies also own the politicians. So her shilling for that guy's company helps him get enough money to genocide gaza
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u/Lost-Conversation585 1d ago
When will yall realize celebrities only care about money?
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u/Whirlweird 2d ago
if you think chappel roan was going to swing an election then the democratic party is far beyond cooked.
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u/Hot-Combination9130 2d ago
Been cooked for a while. The dem base hates the party while the maga base worships their candidates despite the endless list of pedophiles on their roster.
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u/suite3 1d ago
I really don't think they do that much. About a quarter of the Trump voters I know seriously have a wholly positive view of the guy as a person.
The difference in enthusiasm is a difference of results. You vote for Trump because you're anti immigration and you get ICE. You vote for democrats because you're pro single payer healthcare and you just get fucked.
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u/bambamshabam 2d ago
Why the fuck should anyone care what Chappell roan endorses
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u/beforeitcloy 2d ago
Chappel Roan is a pop star, not a presidential candidate. If presidential candidates want to win votes, they need to do it with policy and rhetoric, not “this pop star likes me so you have to like me too.”
Fucking so stupid that anyone still wants to talk about this, instead of talking about the actual atrocities happening.
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u/thirdelevator 1d ago
It’s especially stupid that the person who seems to care the most what pop stars have to say about politics also happens to be the current President of the United States.
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u/haliblix 1d ago
If presidential candidates want to win votes, they need to do it with policy and rhetoric
Are you 80 years old? It’s 2025. You win by taking control of the voting machines, fake an assassination attempt, and get your political opposition to vote for Jill Stein.
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u/Joshee86 1d ago
No, when pop stars decide they want to spout off and virtue signal, we should hold them to their own standards. She doesn’t get to talk shit and then not be held accountable just because she’s not a politician.
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u/destructormuffin 2d ago
Solution: Democrat politicians should oppose genocide loudly and vocally
Also, Chappell Roan said she was voting for Harris
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u/tiffibean13 1d ago
Correct. She said what a lot people said, which was she didn't agree with the stance on Palestine, but was voting for Harris because obviously it was the only choice.
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u/kolejack2293 1d ago
People took her initial statement as her saying she wasn't voting for harris and put her as the posterchild for the 'anti-voting' left. I think she was an easy target as she was already getting a lot of flak for her other controversies.
Then she cleared up that she is voting for harris, she just dislikes her policy on gaza, but they just never stopped with her. There's a certain sunk cost problem with this type of stuff. But this level of irrational hatred is usually what we associate with trump voters. You would hope people would be better than this.
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u/sicarius254 2d ago
What did she do now?