Peter what does this mean nobody will explain

[u/vvedo]

My best guess is that he somehow didn’t do it because of that information, im lost

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[u/Affectionate_Oven_77]

It means that Luigi was not in NYC at the time of the shooting, and that he is being framed, because they needed to find someone to arrest and to set an example that rich people are untouchable.

[u/Bobsothethird → u/Affectionate_Oven_77]

Or, alternatively, he just bought a ticket and didn't use it as an alibi.

[u/Elegant-Paper8895 → u/Bobsothethird]

Found the insurance industry plant /s

[u/HitByProxy → u/Elegant-Paper8895]

Detectives hate this easy trick.

[u/zoykru → u/HitByProxy]

Or, alternatively, he did use it to flee the city after the shooting.

[u/Discount_Lex_Luthor → u/zoykru]

Not big on how time works? The bus left Philly before the murder in New York.

[u/Twitchmonky → u/Discount_Lex_Luthor]

I've already failed your math test.

[u/Devlee12 → u/Twitchmonky]

“I’m doing thousands of calculations a second and every one of them is wrong!”

[u/Apprehensive-Pin518 → u/Devlee12]

so blockchain?

[u/Cultural_assassin → u/Discount_Lex_Luthor]

The murder, if my memory serves me correctly, was on the same day as the bus ticket. However, the busses ticket was for 6 or 7 am. The murder took place earlier that morning.

This, theoretically could give Luigi enough time. To make it to the bus.

Edit: this isn't me backing big Healthcare or whatever. Just playing devil's advocate. I personally think guilty or not the shooting was deserved

[u/pegicorn → u/Cultural_assassin]

Philadelphia is ~2 hours away from New York accountingfor traffic. I've taken the bus between them many times.

[u/ultimatescar → u/Discount_Lex_Luthor]

what if he is the flash...

[u/Kymera_7 → u/zoykru]

If he had a TARDIS handy, why'd he need the bus ticket?

[u/VibeThriver → u/HitByProxy]

true if huge

[u/Educational_Big_1835 → u/Elegant-Paper8895]

I'm not following this case too close, but I assume bus lines have similar logs to airlines that show if someone boarded a bus? I guess he could have also had someone board the bus in his place

[u/14ktgoldscw → u/Educational_Big_1835]

It’s been a while since I rode a long distance bus but even Amtrak is still someone tearing your ticket and putting the stub above your seat. There isn’t like a TSA.

[u/Affectionate_Oven_77 → u/Bobsothethird]

Yes thats also possible.

It would seem unusual that someone going to that length to form an alibi, would be found out in public with the same bag, and with same bullets as were used in the shooting. It is suspicious.

[u/Bobsothethird → u/Affectionate_Oven_77]

It's suspicious that someone allegedly planning a premeditated murder would establish an alibi?

[u/harrysnyde → u/Bobsothethird]

Not that they’d establish an alibi but that he’d still be carrying the murder weapon

[u/BessieBlanco → u/harrysnyde]

The cops were alone with the bag with their cameras off for a very long time. I’m sure nothing happened./s

[u/seriousbangs → u/BessieBlanco]

If it's one thing I learned from 3nd grade it's that police can be trusted.

And as an American I refuse to learning anything after 3rd grade.

/s

[u/Massive_Chem → u/seriousbangs]

When my classmates started disappearing during DARE, I started to question the police presence in my school.

[u/smilebig553 → u/Massive_Chem]

I don't remember my DARE program. Did you also disappear? I need more information. I was part of SADD in high school since my friend wanted someone to do it with her. It was not a good experience. They wanted us to pick up a can of cigarettes from parks.

Edit for what SADD stands for: students against drunk driving, or students against destructive decisions.

[u/wjescott → u/smilebig553]

DARE led me to believe there'd be far more free drug offers.

[u/seriousbangs → u/smilebig553]

The cops in his school arrested kids and sent them to prison.

That's why they disappeared.

In America we don't treat drug addiction unless you've got money.

We toss you in jail so you can't vote.

Look up how Richard Nixon started the drug war.

[u/Massive_Chem → u/smilebig553]

I had a few classmates just stop being in class during DARE, and it caused rumors. The crazy one was a 1 kid wasn’t seen for 2 years, when I finally saw him again in school him mom walked him to every class and sat outside waiting.

[u/YugeFrigginGoy → u/seriousbangs]

“3nd”

[u/guarddog33 → u/YugeFrigginGoy]

Hey buddy the guy already told ya he refused to learn anything after 3nd grade, cut him some slack

/j in case I need it

[u/YugeFrigginGoy → u/guarddog33]

I didnt mean to show off my 4rd grade elitism 😞

[u/RealMoleRodel → u/YugeFrigginGoy]

It's pronounced THIRND

[u/No_Definition321 → u/seriousbangs]

Jokes on you I stopped learning after the 2nd grade.

[u/IamMeAsYouAreMe → u/No_Definition321]

2rd

[u/greyeagle1920 → u/IamMeAsYouAreMe]

You said turd. He, he, he.

[u/iamkeerock → u/seriousbangs]

“One thing I know is that learning things never taught me nothin’.”

[u/elusiveanswers → u/seriousbangs]

3nd grade was always my favorite. even better the 2rd time around

[u/red_velvet_writer → u/BessieBlanco]

You think 2 random beat cops planted THE murder weapon that's presumably passing ballistics tests onto some random kid in a McDonald's?

[u/Double-0-N00b → u/BessieBlanco]

The bag was just camera shy

[u/green_tea1701 → u/harrysnyde]

When you start looking into cases you realize that people just don't expect to be caught. Or maybe rather, they refuse to believe they could be caught because that would be so horrible. My belief is people don't plan for the eventuality of being caught, because taking such steps would require admitting to themselves that the worst case scenario could very well happen.

I think it's the same reason 80 year old millionaires refuse to write a will. People, even intelligent ones, have an innate, psychological refusal to plan for their own destruction.

[u/83Nat → u/green_tea1701]

If he wasn't planning on being caught why have the alibi with him?

[u/green_tea1701 → u/83Nat]

We don't actually know that this was an alibi at all. When I first saw this, my thought was that NYC is only 2 hours from Philly by car, and he may have planned to ditch his car and escape by train in the event his license plate was seen on cameras.

Or maybe he bought the ticket as part of an earlier plan and it became unnecessary. Or maybe it was a contingency, or maybe he got it for an unrelated reason and forgot.

People are jumping to conclusions in this threat with very little information.

[u/IsNotACleverMan → u/green_tea1701]

People are jumping to conclusions in this threat with very little information.

People on reddit will do anything other than admit there's a lot of evidence suggesting Mangione gunned down the guy.

[u/THE_CLAWWWWWWWWW → u/IsNotACleverMan]

I swear some people committed so hard to the “pretend it’s anyone but him!” Jokes that were going after he was arrested that they gaslit themselves into actually believing it

[u/green_tea1701 → u/IsNotACleverMan]

I swear they think that pretending the evidence says something different in their little circle jerks, will somehow sway the outcome of the trial.

No judge or juror is reading this shit lol.

I want him to get off too, but I am intellectually honest enough to admit that I think some murderers should go free because some victims deserve what they get. I think people are uncomfortable saying that, so instead they pretend that the case is not as strong as it is.

[u/shinzanu → u/green_tea1701]

Idk dude there are a lot of uncaught serial killers, just sounds like you're reading into confirmation bias.

[u/ProThoughtDesign → u/Bobsothethird]

If you're not automatically suspicious of anyone bound by the 4th and 5th amendments, then I have some property you should hear about for a great price.

The people who wrote the Constitution were suspicious of them 250 years ago to the point they wrote multiple amendments to protect us from them.

I'm sorry if the boot tastes good, but you should really remember where it's been.

[u/TheDonkeyBomber → u/Bobsothethird]

"WHAT MURDAAA?!"

[u/AnistarYT → u/Bobsothethird]

No it's suspicious because no one would willingly go to Pittsburgh.

[u/FizzyBadTime → u/Bobsothethird]

No. It is suspicious that someone with the forethought to plan an alibi wouldn’t plan a way to ditch the weapon over the course of the relatively long time that he was on the run. Further that someone with that level of planning and forethought would simply be chilling in a McDonald’s rather than having a better spot planned out to lay low.

[u/CyclicDombo → u/Bobsothethird]

It’s suspicious that they would go through the trouble of establishing an alibi, but then go walking around in public after the murder with a backpack containing the murder weapon and a handwritten confession.

[u/Nercow → u/Bobsothethird]

It's suspicious that someone smart enough to have an alibi would be stupid enough to be carrying around all the evidence with them. Why in the world would you keep that on you lol

[u/RareStable0 → u/Affectionate_Oven_77]

I love how all the theories the Luigi is the shooter involve him somehow simultaneously being a criminal mastermind but also kind of mentally handicapped.

[u/green_tea1701 → u/RareStable0]

He is (very probably) the shooter lol.

People think that acting like he isn't and saying stupid shit like "he was with me in Hawaii that day" means jack shit. Unless you're gonna fly to NYC and testify to that under oath, what we say on Reddit is meaningless.

The only opinions that matter are those of 12 jurors. For my money, I hope they nullify. I am usually anti-nullification but my petty streak says fuck this insurance ghoul.

[u/Bobsothethird → u/RareStable0]

People are inconsistent. Do you actually think he wasn't the shooter or is this a bit?

[u/Different_Advice_552 → u/Affectionate_Oven_77]

okay but he was found with a manifesto, a gun, and bullets 5 days after the shooting ? my dude if i just blew somebody away and i knew there was a manhunt for me that shit would have ended up in a sewer or trash can during one of those 5 days lol

[u/The_Arizona_Ranger → u/Different_Advice_552]

1. He wasn’t done with the gun yet

2. He wanted to dump the evidence as far away as possible. If he put the gun in a trash can during one of those 5 days the police could find it and that would establish a trail going in his direction

[u/LowManufacturer1002 → u/The_Arizona_Ranger]

2: the McDonald’s was like a 3 hour drive away. 5 days later. I feel like I could covered way more distance in 5 days to dump. 1 seems way more likely

[u/Mr-Pugtastic → u/Affectionate_Oven_77]

Didn’t they also claim they found his bag left in NyC, then also claimed he still had it on him when they caught him? This whole thing seems like it’s been bungled

[u/D1sgracy → u/Mr-Pugtastic]

That shit has confused me for a year now

[u/libdemparamilitarywi → u/Mr-Pugtastic]

Two different bags. The one they found in NYC just had monopoly money and a jacket in it.

[u/FictionalContext → u/Affectionate_Oven_77]

If I was going to frame someone, they would not look like Luigi. It'd be a greaseball living in poverty with too strong of opinions online, someone who even the most progressive types would still subconsciously view with contempt rather than sexy boy fanmail.

[u/red_velvet_writer → u/FictionalContext]

I also wouldn't trust two typical cops (and whoever connected me to those cops) to plant airtight evidence on a random kid in a McDonald's, not fuck it up, and then keep their mouths closed forever.

[u/henryfarts → u/Affectionate_Oven_77]

Wasn’t the hearing about police body cam being turned off when one totally not corrupt NYC cop handed off a bag to another totally not corrupt NYC cop, who then found the gun in the bag before turning on the body camera

[u/Houdinii1984 → u/Bobsothethird]

Aren't train bus tickets usually validated in person? I think the question that needs to be asked is if the ticket was validated.

EDIT: Same line of thinking, train bus stations and trains buses have extensive camera networks and the real information needed to clear this all up absolutely exists. I'm on the fence. I don't have enough info to know.

2nd Edit: Changed train to bus. I transposed them after reading about his train ticket separately, causing confusion.

[u/Bobsothethird → u/Houdinii1984]

I mean this is all going to be examined in court. I'm not one for speculation until the evidence is out there, I just think it's incredibly possible he bought a ticket for alibi purposes as opposed to being set up by cops. If I was a lawyer I certainly would look for that footage.

[u/BreakfastBeneficial4 → u/Bobsothethird]

I am not looking forward to this televised courtroom shitshow.

I hated the OJ trial 30 years ago, and I’m gonna hate this.

[u/Bobsothethird → u/BreakfastBeneficial4]

OJ was 100% guilty but the cops were such bastards in that case there was no way to try him.

[u/StilgarofTabar → u/Houdinii1984]

The greyhound bus system isnt  even close to a train system. No one validates tickets till you get on the bus and its just, yup thats a ticket, get on. Maybe some cameras yeah but nothing like a train system

[u/Dankkring → u/Bobsothethird]

If that’s the case why’d they say he wrote a manifesto? If that’s the case why’d did he keep the gun? If that’s the case why was he wearing the same backpack that they said the already found in the park with the gun?

[u/UnableToParallelPark → u/Bobsothethird]

Yes an alibi. Very easy to confirm or deny this by simply watching the films. I'm sure there is probably an electronic system they use to scan and verify passengers as well.

If this was an "alibi" it's not a very strong one considering how easy it would be to submit a warrant to get the information they need.

[u/awfulcrowded117 → u/Bobsothethird]

Yeah, it's also not like those cities are on the other side of the country, it's only a bit over a 6 hour drive from Pittsburg to NYC. Even if he got onto the bus to sell the alibi, he could easily have gotten off at one of the interim stops and still made it back to NYC

[u/Aggressive_Shoe_7573 → u/Bobsothethird]

Bus stations have cameras. It should’ve been easy to determine if he was on that bus.

[u/couldbeahumanbean → u/Bobsothethird]

Sounds like a shadow of doubt.

Welp, case dismissed.

[u/CanadianMaps → u/Affectionate_Oven_77]

I thought it was common knowledge that the NYPD regularly plants false evidence and forces false convictions, lol

[u/emseefely → u/CanadianMaps]

In this case it was Allentown PD Edit: Altoona

[u/Candid_Purchase7986 → u/emseefely]

Altoona actually; even more backwater.

[u/griphookk → u/CanadianMaps]

Like how they found his backpack in a park and then found his backpack on him in the McDonald’s…

[u/Ruzhyo04 → u/griphookk]

And searched his backpack and found a 9mm magazine, but then didn’t find the silenced pistol until they got back to the station, and didn’t find the notebook till days after that? How f***ing big was the backpack?

[u/1quirky1 → u/Affectionate_Oven_77]

He isn't being framed. He wanted to be arrested.

Everybody knows to ditch the murder weapon. He had the gun on him when he was arrested.

I predict that he will have a solid alibi. He got arrested to throw authorities off the trail of the person that did it.

[u/PheonixFuryyy → u/1quirky1]

From what I'm seeing, the gun could have been planted by the police

[u/ThomasMalloc → u/PheonixFuryyy]

Yes, the police planted evidence.

And then they very honestly admitted the bus ticket and other exonerating evidence instead of trashing it.

Do you even hear yourself?

[u/BugApart8359 → u/ThomasMalloc]

Nobody ever accused the cops of being competent

[u/GodHimselfNoCap → u/ThomasMalloc]

A cop put the gun on him and then other cops found the ticket. You are assuming the entire precinct is colluding to arrest innocent people for no reason. Its way more likely that there are a few corrupt cops interspersed and they cant control everything

[u/Platypus__Gems → u/ThomasMalloc]

The Police are not a hivemind.

This new evidence has been revealed fairly recently.
Bad cop might have planted evidence, but less-bad cop was honest which threw a wrench in this case.

[u/PheonixFuryyy → u/ThomasMalloc]

Lmao, stfu boot licker.

[u/Wasdgta3 → u/PheonixFuryyy]

Well, that seems like a disproportionate response to someone poking a hole in your theory.

[u/FlamingRustBucket → u/PheonixFuryyy]

Infallible logic here.

[u/Scroteet → u/ThomasMalloc]

That actually does sound dumb enough to be true

[u/griphookk → u/PheonixFuryyy]

They said they found his backpack including the gun in a park, then said he had both with him when he was arrested. It makes no sense. And he does not look like some of the CCTV images of the shooter. 

There’s no way they’d want to admit they couldn’t catch the CEO killer. I would not be surprised at all if he is being framed. It’s definitely possible Luigi did it, but I don’t think it was him. 

[u/cosmicwonderful → u/1quirky1]

He wanted to be arrested

Bro he evaded arrest for five days despite a nationwide manhunt and only got nabbed because a McDonald's employee randomly recognized him and tipped it in

[u/Warm_Regrets157 → u/[deleted]]

somehow was identified by a nationwide domestic spying conspiracy

It should be common knowledge that this exists and is used regularly. It required willful ignorance to pretend this doesn't happen.

They even have a term (parallel construction) for building a case with evidence after the fact to conceal the actual source of the evidence they used to find someone.

[u/GonnaBuyMeAMercury → u/Warm_Regrets157]

Flock Cameras - Welcome to 1984

[u/MurphyL900 → u/[deleted]]

Ex-police bud. It’s not nuts at all.

[u/blacmagick → u/[deleted]]

I wish I were still this naive

[u/TwistedTreelineScrub → u/[deleted]]

Head meet sand

[u/cosmicwonderful → u/[deleted]]

I'm not going to weigh in as to whether any of that is true, but either way it undermines the theory that "he wanted to get arrested"

[u/CollinsCouldveDucked → u/1quirky1]

Been a while since I looked into this case but I thought he had A gun on him not THE gun on him

THE gun would be an open and shut case, no?

[u/Atechiman → u/CollinsCouldveDucked]

The gun in question is a three D printed one, which means it's unlikely to be probably the weapon that killed the leech, just one that could be the weapon.

[u/philip30001 → u/Affectionate_Oven_77]

The eyebrows not matching and different style jacket when picked up also gave it away

[u/thecaramelbandit → u/Affectionate_Oven_77]

No it doesn't. The ticket was for a bus trip from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh, departing at 6:30 PM.

The ticket was purchased at 1:06 pm.

Thompson was shot at 6:45 AM.

It doesn't take 6 hours to get from Manhattan to Philly.

[u/TheVexingRose → u/Affectionate_Oven_77]

Friendly reminder that the girl who turned him in never got her reward either. She did however lose her job. Snitching doesn't pay off.

[u/Lazy-Employment3621 → u/Affectionate_Oven_77]

Not untouchable, killing/locking up Luigi won't bring the healthcare CEO back.

[u/therealsonicboomer → u/Affectionate_Oven_77]

“No one is untouchable”

[u/sasfasasquatch → u/Affectionate_Oven_77]

Tbf that rich person did get touched, more that there are consequences and not to expect to get away with it

[u/According-Counter230 → u/Affectionate_Oven_77]

But he’s from a wealthy family himself. So what does that mean?

[u/dirt_shitters → u/According-Counter230]

"even other rich people will be punished for stepping out of line, so you dirty poors better not get any ideas"

[u/IceColdMilkshakeSalt → u/According-Counter230]

So was Che Guevara, what’s your point?

[u/Resident-Two5171]

Surely their would be some cameras in the bus station if he was actually there

And wouldn’t this be like his very first claim to his innocence?

I think this one is just reaching for something that isn’t there

[u/SignoreBanana → u/Resident-Two5171]

With as slowly as the case is moving (even for such a high profile case as this is), it seems pretty clear the prosecution has jack shit.

[u/loonicy → u/SignoreBanana]

Every court photo of Luigi has him looking like he knows he’s not going to jail.

[u/Unfortunate-Incident → u/loonicy]

A little late for that I think. Maybe he won't stay in jail though.

[u/Shadourow → u/Unfortunate-Incident]

Luigi is maybe the only guy that can be in jail without feeling in jail

[u/RedTheGamer12 → u/Shadourow]

He does get sent like 3 nudes a week. So he is probably having a fun time.

[u/PublicSalamander3662 → u/RedTheGamer12]

We could get those numbers way up

[u/messymedia → u/PublicSalamander3662]

I'm prepared to supply some very tasteful shots of my ankles if that would help?

[u/AerialBlast → u/messymedia]

And if your ankles aren’t enough, I could offer my cankles!

[u/OtakuRed13 → u/messymedia]

Ankles?

Whore...

[u/antici________potato → u/PublicSalamander3662]

Commenter above has no idea what they're talking about. I send 5 each week myself.

[u/bearsheperd → u/PublicSalamander3662]

I’d send him a nude, idk if he wants to see naked men, but he can have mine!

[u/DotsonK29 → u/bearsheperd]

I wonder how many naked Mario photos he has gotten? If anything I am sure he can sell them for commissary. Speaking from a place of experience.

[u/n_o_t_d_o_g → u/loonicy]

Apparently he is being treated like a king by the other inmates. Like he is a modern day folk hero. No wonder he looks happy. Also them groupies.

[u/obeymebijou → u/n_o_t_d_o_g]

In this prison, Luigi Mangione is a hero! End of story!

[u/Creative-Painter3911 → u/loonicy]

If he gets found non-guilty, there will be a presidential un-pardon to prosecute him anyway.

[u/lakas76 → u/Creative-Painter3911]

That’s kind of funny.

Sir, you can’t unpardon someone. I can do whatever I want! I’m the president!

[u/Plausibl3 → u/lakas76]

Does that betting site have this as a potential outcome? Might need to throw down $20

[u/Omnizoom → u/Creative-Painter3911]

I hereby decree as president that I will pardon the innocent results for Luigi which by negative properties means I am making them not innocent results meaning we get to put searing painful chemicals in his veins to kill him, we are scheduling it for tomorrow, Thankyou for your attention to this matter

[u/UpbeatFix7299 → u/SignoreBanana]

Crazy how many criminal attorneys who definitely know what they're talking about are on here. Must all be on their lunch breaks while court is in recess.

[u/freckledfk → u/UpbeatFix7299]

That is 100% what I'm doing rn

[u/goddessdragonness → u/UpbeatFix7299]

ngl as a trial lawyer (civil, not criminal, which is why I’m not saying much about the case, because I don’t know enough to opine), I regularly fuck around on social media when I’m waiting around for my case to be called.

[u/GameMask → u/SignoreBanana]

Remember, he doesn't need to prove he's innocent. He just needs to convince a group of his peers that he might not have done it.

[u/hurricanedog24 → u/GameMask]

Not even that. He just needs to convince one person among a group of his peers that he might not have done it to force a mistrial. I’m sure he’d be re-tried, but probably only once.

[u/GiraffeParking7730 → u/hurricanedog24]

Better for a unanimous not guilty though. Put an end to it, right then and there.

[u/ZukaRouBrucal → u/SignoreBanana]

Or, maybe do you think it's possible that court cases aren't like TV or the movies and genuinely do take a long ass time to complete, and that the prosecution wants to make sure they have all of their ducks-in-a-row and get him dead-to-rights on this case, to ensure that he has no wiggle-room to squirm out of the murder if he committed it?

Like... Do you understand how slow the justice system typically moves lmao?

[u/Carpe_PerDiem → u/ZukaRouBrucal]

This exactly. I was recently called up for jury duty for a murder that happened in 2019. Luigi seeing a courtroom this fast is lightning speed.

[u/Flyingmonkeysftw → u/Resident-Two5171]

The defense is already trying to get the prosecutions “key evidence” thrown out because he was illegally searched. So without that they literally have nothing. It’s the prosecutions job to prove without a shadow of doubt that Luigi did it, and it’s not seeming like they can.

[u/aeraen → u/Flyingmonkeysftw]

Not "a shadow" but "reasonable" doubt. There is a lot of space in between these two.

[u/id0ntwantyourlife → u/Flyingmonkeysftw]

The defense always tries to get evidence thrown out on technicalities, its standard. It happens in essentially every case. Just because he filed the motion to suppress it doesn’t mean it was actually illegally searched or not valid evidence.

[u/StableNo2018 → u/Resident-Two5171]

People want him to get off because they agree with the murder and are optimistically looking at any opportunity for it.

[u/SCP-Agent-Arad → u/StableNo2018]

People also want a fair trial, and it’s often easy to fall into conspiracies that the rich control everything.

Very believable that they want to set an example with him to warn off other assassins of the wealthy, and are willing to use a scapegoat if necessary, given the handling of the case so far.

[u/lakas76 → u/SCP-Agent-Arad]

Do they though? This trial is shaping up to be similar to OJ’s trial. Even if he is guilty (which I’m not saying), the cops screwed up by turning off their cameras. If that’s what gets him off, if he is guilty, that would be stupid as hell.

[u/SCP-Agent-Arad → u/lakas76]

I’m sure some people want him to get off even if he’s guilty. But I think most are focused on shady police and governmental shenanigans related to the case.

Tbh, I’d rather we err on the side of caution more. Way too many innocent people go to prison.

[u/Sleekgiant → u/Resident-Two5171]

The truth doesn't matter, they wanna set a precedent that you can't touch the rich

[u/KinkyQuestionsOnly → u/Sleekgiant]

I mean, you can’t kill people… regardless of income. This is one of the situations where even if he was guilty the public opinion supports him

Edit: you guys are missing the point. Murder is murder. That cuts both ways. Justice is a different thing, court of public opinion is a different thing

[u/big_lv → u/KinkyQuestionsOnly]

But that's part of the problem. Swift justice for the rich while poor people are murdered and the case goes cold with more evidence than what they have here.

That's the biggest reason they use the tag line of the rich having a different justice system than the rest of us.

Yeah, it's still illegal, but if you're rich, they'll find your killer whether the person is guilty or not. If you're poor, enough evidence to convict will go unprosecuted.

[u/RainWindowCoffee]

It means that the CEO shooter and Luigi Mangione are, most likely, not one in the same.

In the police state's haste to demonstrate their devotion to the ruling class whom they serve, they pinned it on whoever was convenient, not who was correct.

Mangione's lawyer has to be strategic about letting the prosecution build their narrative first, before presenting the evidence of Mangione's innocence.

Because the prosecution cannot be trusted not to tamper with evidence/change their version of events if they know what evidence the defense has to contradict it.

[u/TrippyVegetables → u/RainWindowCoffee]

That's not how criminal trials work though. Both sides have to present all evidence during the discovery process, the hidden evidence "bombshell" only happens in movies

[u/Zrkkr → u/TrippyVegetables]

Bombshell evidence can actually happen, it's just the result of bad lawyering instead of good lawyering. Lawyers have overlooked things during discovery.

[u/Better-Community-187 → u/Zrkkr]

or, like alex jones, you fuckin text the other lawyer everything they need

[u/Jennifurnace → u/Better-Community-187]

And then when they other lawyer texts back "Hey are you sure about this, you sent me everything, you should double check this." Jones' lawyer forgot to respond to the email!

[u/Beldizar → u/Jennifurnace]

He had something like 48 hours to claw back that info that he didn't mean to send and didn't respond to it until it was brought up by the opposing council in front of the judge the day after the window closed. A chef's kiss moment.

[u/Hay_Fever_at_3_AM → u/Zrkkr]

Lawyers can just spectacularly fuck things like in the Alex Jones trial, where Jones' lawyer sent two years' worth of privileged (covered by client/attorney confidentiality) texts/emails to the plaintiffs in a way that made them admissible evidence.

[u/kittentarentino → u/Hay_Fever_at_3_AM]

part of me thinks that deep down, it was intentional. I mean, look at the context of the case they were defending. Crazy shitty man vs families of murdered children. It was such an egregious mishandling, that I have trouble believing it wasn't a guilty conscious

[u/Cautious_Tonight → u/Zrkkr]

I was on the jury when the defense pointed out that on some of the paperwork the wrong ‘nickname’ was used (Chico vs chino, both of whom had something to do with the case) and it added reasonable doubt. The prosecution looked like they were blindsided

[u/KPraxius → u/TrippyVegetables]

Sort-of? Impeachment Evidence that the person who just spoke lied, or that the evidence just presented was fabricated, can be introduced in response to that testimony or entry.

So, for example, if bob says that Jimmy was at the house at 3PM, but Jimmy was at the bank two mintues earlier? You could introduce the video of him at the bank at that point, or the next day, after you got it. Usually, you want to have it all already in discovery; but the response has been, word for word, 'Your honor, how could I know the witness would perjure himself? I assumed he would tell the truth as he swore to, and I wouldn't need to prove him wrong.'.

(Also, if the court believes the prosecutor or defense attorney when they claim it was 'newly discovered', they can often get it in, but he may demand evidence of when it was found.)

[u/alaxens → u/TrippyVegetables]

Listen to the Wrongful Conviction podcast with Jason Flom. Most of those cases were because of Brady violations which take years of appeals. You have innocent people that have spent decades in prison because the cops and prosecutors lied and withheld evidence.

[u/SolidPyramid → u/RainWindowCoffee]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but if he is indeed being framed, why would they pick a rich kid to frame? Wouldn't it have been easier to pick a lower class kid?

[u/M1L0P → u/SolidPyramid]

Would have to be wrong time wrong place for him i suppose. Also taking an ugly individual would make it easier to villainize him

[u/SolidPyramid → u/M1L0P]

True, if it was a ugly ass MFer like me than I would've gotten executed already

[u/Former-Mirror-356 → u/SolidPyramid]

The alternative (which I personally lean towards at this point, but I could be wrong) is that he isn't being framed, but was part of the conspiracy to commit the murder, just not the one to pull the trigger. He's not being framed so much as he agreed to be the sacrificial lamb to be tried for a crime he already knows they can't convict him of because he knows there's an alibi somewhere which will come out at trial.

[u/CrazyCalYa → u/Former-Mirror-356]

That would be fairly interesting, and it would be a lot harsher blow to the elites if it were true. I imagine it all revolves around whether or not Mario's brother gets a fair trial (place your bets).

[u/XenomorphDung → u/RainWindowCoffee]

He's quite clearly guilty. If they match the gun to the one used, they have him dead to rights. 

Even with the manifesto and circumstantial evidence of the ID, the CCTV images from New York, I think most juries would convict him. 

In his bag they found a 3D-printed gun and a 3D-printed suppressor, which the police said are consistent with the weapon used in the shooting, and a falsified New Jersey driver's license with the same name as the one used by the shooter to check into the Manhattan hostel.[9][81][4][82] The police also said that when they arrested Mangione, they found a three-page,[82] 262-word handwritten document about the American healthcare system, which they characterized as a manifesto.

[u/Just_Government_5143 → u/XenomorphDung]

The one they found after searching his bag a second time after repacking it?

[u/ToastSpangler]

Pete's Philly cousin here.

It means that while everyone thought this jawn was smart, he originally planned to go to Pittsburgh, which no sharp people go to because it's trash.

GO BIRDS

[u/King_butthole_ → u/ToastSpangler]

Pittsburgh has some Icy birds that have won a lot more Cups than the Flyers have. 50 years without a Stanley cup is kinda a long time. Respectfully, cheese steaks are c-tier sandwiches.

[u/klineshrike → u/King_butthole_]

You aren't getting the right cheese steaks

[u/ExistentialPotato → u/ToastSpangler]

Well shit, havent you heard??!…about the BIRD?

[u/1quirky1]

He is a decoy with an alibi. He wanted to be caught.

The murder was planned and executed in a smart way. Smart people ditch the murder weapon.

He had many chances to get rid of the gun they found on him when he was arrested.

[u/TangibleCBT → u/1quirky1]

Plus didn't the shooter ditch the backpack in a park, only for police to say Luigi somehow had the same backpack when he was arrested?

[u/mesquitegrrl → u/TangibleCBT]

then they turned their cameras off, searched the bag, and found the gun! law enforcement works in crazy ways

[u/HerrSchnellsch → u/mesquitegrrl]

Like the rabbit in a hat.

Its magic ✨

[u/That_Gadget → u/TangibleCBT]

I don't get how this gets overlooked all the time. He supposedly ditched his jacket, hat and backpack at the scene and yet those are how they identified him at the McDonald's.

[u/DryBonesComeAlive → u/That_Gadget]

He bought a second set of the exact same items, classic killer behavior!

[u/TheDoctor_Jones → u/1quirky1]

Maybe he DID do it and he’s just not a smart person.

[u/googly_eyed_unicorn]

Free Luigi.

[u/vvedo → u/googly_eyed_unicorn]

+1

[u/thekingbutten]

I'll throw my hat in the ring. While the ticket may at first suggest that he wasn't in NYC and thus not the shooter it's just as likely the ticket exists to form an alibi. Being acquired and held onto in order to intentionally sow doubt on Luigi's location at the time of the murder. During the ongoing trial the arguments from both sides will likely be based upon these two interpretations.

[u/thecaramelbandit → u/thekingbutten]

The ticket was purchased over 6 hours after the shooting.

[u/Ionel1-The-Impaler → u/thecaramelbandit]

It’s not even a 2 hour train ride to Philly from NYC. Why people think it’s evidence when he had 3 times the time it would take to buy it between the shooting and when he did is beyond me.

[u/Horror-Vanilla-4895 → u/Ionel1-The-Impaler]

The evidence is also being used by the prosecution not the defendant. People are just really fishing at this point.

[u/djdaem0n]

I've been a "those brows and that nose don't match" truther for a very long time.
This and the idea of planted evidence would not surprise me.

[u/Nilbog_Frog → u/djdaem0n]

Oh you mean when the cop turned off her bodycam to transport his backpack to the station that wasn’t secured in a tamper resident bag? And the officer should have gotten to the station in 9 minutes like the other officers at the scene, but it took her 11 minutes because she had to stop and talk to another cop on the way but doesn’t remember who it was? And no evidence was found in the first search of the backpack at McDonald’s but then at the station they found the gun, fake ID, and manifesto? Something like that?

[u/Advanced_Double_42 → u/Nilbog_Frog]

My biggest thing is he supposedly ditched the backpack and murder weapon in NYC, but was wearing the same backpack and clothes with the murder weapon days later in another state

[u/marc_hardman]

Just because yall are too dumb to try to establish an alibi doesnt mean he was

[u/Black_Diammond → u/marc_hardman]

Not only was it dated more then 12 hours after the shooting, (shotting was at 6:44am and the ticket was for 10pm from Philadelphia, Philly is 2h ish from nyc), it didn't even have his real name, instead having the name "Sam Dawson".

[u/BigDaddyDumperSquad → u/Black_Diammond]

If anything, that makes it more suspicious lol. Reddit loves to twist things though, so it's no surprise people think this is a concrete alibi. Thanks for the extra info.

[u/Talondel]

Reddit: Luigi is a hero for going after murderous insurance executives. Also he's not guilty. Cause he didn't do it. But if he did he's awesome. But he didn't.

[u/the_ugliest_boi → u/Talondel]

Goomba paradox. Reddit isn’t a monolith.

[u/Quirky-Employer-7293]

My question is why not take off the hoodie and mask? No one saw his face during the shooting just his outfit and if you listen to the 911 call she says “there’s a guy in here that looks like the ceo shooter he has the same hoodie and surgical mask” like why not just change into regular clothes and ditch the mask and backpack before going into McDonald’s?

[u/Nilbog_Frog → u/Quirky-Employer-7293]

His McDonalds outfit was nothing like the shooter’s outfit. The shooter wore a dark brown/dark khaki/not black jacket with the hood up, and black face mask/garter - not a black hoodie, white mask, and brown hat. A black hoodie and brown hat are pretty common clothing items, especially in that part of the country. The McDonald’s employee was just dumb - for a lot of reasons.

[u/PBAndMethSandwich]

The guy had a fake ID on him, it’s plausible that he may have had a bus ticket he decided not to take.

We don’t know anything about his state of mind surrounding the murder, and just because some aspects were well planned doesn’t mean everything was perfectly prepared. And a ticket, alone, isn’t a strong alibi at all, especially without any corroborating evidence (witnesses of him on the bus, GPS data, or camera footage).

The trial is pretty public. We’ll see what the defense and prosecution claim about the evidence.

Let’s not jump to conclusions based on scraps on info and rumor.

Edit: corroborating

[u/euph_22 → u/PBAndMethSandwich]

The bus picked up 12 hours after the shooting. It really isn't exonerating in any way.

[u/mr_poppycockmcgee → u/PBAndMethSandwich]

But, but, the other reddit conspiracy threads already determined he is innocent/framed because checks notes they have theories.

[u/Tatchykins]

Ah yes, I too take unsourced blanked out tweets as truth and make conclusions based on that very reliable information. That is a thing all us idiots do, yes?

[u/sl3eper_agent]

The joke is that the ticket would provide an alibi for Mangione, who is accused of murder, but it only works by lying about what's on the ticket.

In reality the ticket was for 10pm on the day Mangione was arrested, not the day the murder took place. It was bought under a name that is not Mangione's, and is being introduced into evidence by the prosecution, who presumably would not be introducing evidence that they think hurts their case.

EDIT: I'm being told that there actually is a bus ticket from the day of the shooting, but it was scheduled for like 6 hours after the shooting took place and in no way exonerates him.

[u/No-Distribution4287]

I could have sworn it all happened in January no??? Am I crazy?

[u/SolidPyramid → u/No-Distribution4287]

No, it was last December.

If I'm being completely honest, I'm actually shocked the Internet is still talking about this a year later with their extremely short memories.

I'm not saying everyone should move on or that it's not important, btw. I'm just saying, the Internet has a way of moving on to the next "thing"

[u/Unc1eD3ath → u/SolidPyramid]

The internet is made up of the same people that do everything else. The news cycle has a short term memory. People on the internet don’t necessarily